Shooting S8 Action

[chaunceytanton]

What fps is suitable for shooting high speed action, such as snowboarding? thanks, chauncey

[tfunch24]

If you can do it, I would shoot fast action at 24 fps. You're less likely to get strobing and your frames will be sharper.

Anyone else?

Tom

[Matt Pacini]

Tough question, "suitable" being the relative question here.
If you want it to appear in real time, as it really is, then shoot 24fps.
If you want it to appear slow motion, then shoot higher frame rates.
If you want it to appear faster than normal, shoot at 18fps.

Anything but 24fps is considered an effect, basically.

Matt Pacini

[chaunceytanton]

Thanks for the info the both of you... Is 24fps fast enough to capture action sports without blurring. I'm going to be shooting snowboarding which almost always has a lot of light. Any suggestions on film for bright days. thanks again, chauncey

[shralp]

Well chauncey, you came to the right place. I've shot LOTS of boardsports on 16mm and Super 8, (thats really all my company shoots, action sports). As for frame rates, you don't want to shoot at less than 24fps for obvious reasons, (unless you want to speed up you action for some artistic reason). I find that 24fps works well for long shots where I am shooting someone riding a big line in the distance. Stuff where you are zoomed in a fair amount and you want to see the entire line the rider is doing as you do a slow pull out to wide, etc. etc. In this case, shooting slow mo just doesn't give you the impact your looking for, it actually looks a little boring and takes to long to watch the shot. For closer up stuff, shooting in the half pipe, kickers, powder, etc, I rarely shoot at 24fps. Not because it strobes funny or anything, just beause you really don't have a chance to see what is going on because it happens so fast. If you want to slow it down a bit but still give the impression of real time, I find that 32 to 36 fps works great. It allows you to see whats going on without making it really slow. Anything over 36 fps starts to really get you into slo mo zone and I usually bump up to at least 48fps for this. Powder slashes in your face, huge airs out of the pipe, big stuff off of cheese wedge booter jumps, etc look great at 48fps. Hopefully you camera has enough adjustability to accomodate this. A good rule is the farther away from the subject you are, the more you will want to shoot at real time 24fps, the closer you are to the subject, the more you will want to start increasing you frame rate. I'm looking forward to shooting some 54fps stuff with my new Nizo camera this winter on a ski/snowboard movie I'm shooting for Mountain Film Festival submission! Oh yeah, Kodachrome 40 should be fine for most coditions except a full on dumping storm. Plus-x black and white is fun to play with too, (use a yellow or orange filter to help with contrast). Hope this helps....

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 26, 2002 02:51 PM: Message edited by: shralp ]</font>

[chaunceytanton]

shralp-
thanks, What camera do you use mostly for shooting super8? I've been researching the canon 1014xl or Nizo 156 macro. Both seem to have the most options(time lapse and fps). Also, as far as lenses go what seems to work best as far as the millimeters go. Describe your set up if you will.
I'm shooing in Colorado this season, What company so you work for? thanks, i appreciate it. chaunceytanton

[shralp]

Chauncey, right now I am using a Nizo Professional for a Super 8 camera. I just bought it recently for a ski/snowboard movie that I am shooting this winter. Its similar to the Nizo 801, it just has multi coated optics and you don't need a separate battery to power up the light meter. I chose this camera over the other Nizo for a few reasons, mainly because I needed the biggest zoom possible for shooting in the backcountry as sometimes I'm one peak away shooting a big line and anything less than the 7-80 zoom on my Nizo wouldn't be enough. Also, I want to shoot slo mo and 54FPS should do nicely as well as my interest in doing time lapse stuff with the intervalometer. The Cannon is a nice camera as is the Nizo156, it just depends on what kind of zoom capabilities you are looking for. I also looked at the Beaulieu 4008 because it has interchangeable C-mount lenses which would allow me the flexibility I am looking for, (I'm used to shooting 16mm where I have a choice of prime and zoom lenses so the Nizo is quite a change for me.) Its just that the french LOVE to build proprietary crap into their cameras and in this case, its the funky batteries that no one can seem to re-cell without spending a mint and I don't need to have battery issues when I'm in the middle of nowhere with sub freezing temps to deal with. Since the Nizo is just double A batteries, its easy to deal with. As for my Super 8 package, there is not much to it and that is the whole point, light and fast. Its just the camera, maybe a wide angle adapter if I can find a decent one, the Nizo shoulder brace to help steady hand held stuff, an ultra light carbon fiber tripod, some lens hoods, a polarizer for shooting color stock and a yellow #15 filter for better contrast when I'm shooting black and white stock.
My company, Frontside Productions, specializes in shooting action sports of all types but we mainly focus on board sports. We shoot for TV shows, (Core Culture on Fox Sports), did the whole Bluetorch thing before they went under, etc etc. We also shoot promo videos for outdoor companies like Patagonia, and Arc'teryx. I also have partnered up with a company, Bump Films, and we have produced a full length wakeboard movie each season for the last 5 years.

[chaunceytanton]

shralp-
what up? thanks for the info. At what times do you choose to use the polarized filter?
Also, do yo use the automated light meters or the hand held kind?

Did you know Mike Arzt at Blue Torch, he ran the snowboarding program, he is a really good friend of mine. Anyway thanks again, you have been very helpful. Your company seems to be killing it. chaunceytanton

[shralp]

Chauncey,
I use the polo filter when I'm shooting Kodachrome 40 on sunny days. It basically makes the sky a bit more saturated blue so it "pops" better on the screen. Most people recommend that you get a circular polo instead of a linear polo for the best results.
I always use a hand held meter for shooting 16mm but I'm finding that the F-stop values in the viewfinder of my Nizo don't really correspond well to what my handheld meter says. I have a feeling it has something to do with the fact that my handheld meter is taking an incident reading, (that is the light that is falling on the subject, or meter) and the camera meter takes a reflected reading I think, (the light that is being reflected off of a subject). After shooting some test rolls with a slate at the head of each shot showing what the camera is telling me, it seems that the camera meter is pretty right on so I'm going to stick with that. I won't keep it on auto however, just to keep the iris from "wowing" when I pan from a dark area to a lighter area or vice versa. I'll take a reading with it on auto with the composition/camera move that I'm going to do and then manually lock out the aperture to that value so the exposure stays consistent. Yup, Mike is a nice guy, I worked with him up on Mt. Hood a few summers back for some camp segments on Bluetorch. Last I heard he was at Airwalk in Colorado, I assume he is still there. Say hi for me next time you see him! -Eric Jeffcoat